Stoic Physics (Remix)

The Root of the Problem

Modern Stoics like to think that you can get something from nothing. They think ethics come out of nowhere. They think we can somehow pull moral behavior out of logic (which they equate with Reason). Reason is the order governing the Cosmos. Logic is how we interpret that Reason. That interpretation leads us to ethics. You can't have ethics without a why?

A: "You should be nice to your fellow man."
B: "That's nice. Why?"
A: "Because it's the right thing to do."
B: "But why is it the right thing to do?"

A is the Modern Stoic. B is me trying to figure out where the fuck they're getting their ethics. They've never given an answer.

If, however, the Cosmos is a complete whole and we are just one of its countless constituent parts, then it makes sense that we'd want the Whole to succeed, the same way the hand or foot wants the human body as a whole to succeed. But this would mean that they'd have to say there's more to life than mere chance, and that something can only be made by something else. It hurts their brains because they've been railing against Christianity for the better part of their lives, and they don't want to admit that there's a purpose to existence beyond what we assign it.

Disingenuity

Modern Stoics pull up the same two examples to prove Traditional Stoics are gatekeeping spiritualists. The first is Aristo of Chios. Aristo wanted to focus on ethics over physics. The majority of his contemporaries did not agree and stayed put. It would be like if a group of early Christians broke off and said, we like the ethics you've stolen from the Stoics came up with all on your own, but we want to get rid of this Jesus guy. We'd all call bullshit. I think we can do the same with the Modern Stoics.

The other thing is Marcus' providence or atoms passages. I'm not a Greek reader, so I'm relying on English translations, but every translation I've read of Meditations has phrased it like "even if this is or isn't true…" like we've all done.

“if all is God, then all is well; but if ruled by chance, don’t you too be ruled by chance” (9.28)

This isn't a man denying the god. This is a guy talking to himself and confirming his worldview internally. Marcus talks about the god far too much to think the Cosmos is ruled by chance. And if not ruled by chance, then his ethics were guided by the same providence as the rest of the Cosmos.

Follow the Money

I jumped ship from the Ryan Holidays of the world after one too many ads for book clubs and challenge coins. Modern Stoicism is a business. They write books, they make merch, and they want your likes. It is not a good business decision to peddle their wares to a population that's already got a religion or has rejected the concept of god entirely. Traditional Stoics occupy a narrow space where we're open to the idea of god and haven't already picked one. There's no money in Traditional Stoicism. It's in Modern Stoicism's financial interest to appeal to their modern audience.

What to Do?

Nothing. Leave them to it. Don't engage. They'll never see our side of it. Until they want to. A lot of the now-Traditional Stoics I've met were Modern Stoics first and saw through the business of Modern Stoicism. The Modern Stoics want to use the name but not the foundation. And they want to tell you that it's because Aristo also didn't care for physics and that Marcus was unsure if the god existed. I've had my fill of them.

This is a grumpier version of a note I compiled with AI after a lengthy back-and-forth conversation.